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Re: Clayton College of Natural Health
Re: Clayton College of Natural Health -- Posted by amy on 07-13-03 13:18
Tom -
My original post was not to single out Rich Douglas. If I didn't
think I could not get the answers I'm looking for from some of the
people on this board I wouldn't be here. I understand who Rich
Douglas is and I own the distance learning books by John Bear but that
doesn't mean that I won't question some of the things they have to
say. I will keep asking questions about Clayton College until I am
satisfied with the answers I'm looking for.
Thank you,
Amy
Thomas Nixon wrote in message news:<3F107193.1090007@yahoo.com>...
> amy wrote:
>
> >The more I look into
> >Naturopathy on the web, the more I am disappointed by those who have
> >been posting negative comments on this board without doing their
> >homework.
> >
>
> You really, truly don't know Rich Douglas, do you? He's the king of
> homework on distance learning. I would think that a web search would
> solidify in your mind his standing as an expert in the field (including
> the completion of a doctorate in nontraditional higher education).
>
> Does he have attitude? Yes. Show me an expert that doesn't. He believes
> passionately in this field. Passion often brings attitude. That doesn't
> take away from the fact that he knows what he is talking about.
>
> I know of two people who I would approach with questions about distance
> learning programs. He's one. The other is John Bear.
>
>
> Tom
> ----
> Author, "Bears' Guide to Earning High School Diplomas Nontraditionally"
> (Ten Speed Press, 2003)
> http://www.tomnixon.net
Re: Clayton College of Natural Health -- Posted by judy on 07-14-03 11:17
afw@adv-digital.com (amy) wrote in message news:...
> I will keep asking questions about Clayton College until I am
> satisfied with the answers I'm looking for.
>
> Thank you,
> Amy
Amy--
I am a long time lurker who rarely posts. However, I could not pass
this up. Your last sentence says it all. Until someone tells you that
Clayton is a good school and you should go there, you won't be
satisfied. You have asked for and been given advice from
internationally known experts in the field and you don't like it. So
keep on asking. Maybe someone day, someone who is not as
passionate--or as knowledgeable--about the legitamacy of distance
education will give you the answer you want.
In the meantime, check out some of the accredited schools....
Judy
Re: Clayton College of Natural Health -- Posted by amy on 07-14-03 18:51
Judy -
Thank you for your response but if you have read all of my posts you
will notice that many of my questions were not answered. I found a
gentleman on another board who was able to answer all of my questions
and concerns without thinking I was attacking his intelligence or
resume.
Thank you,
Amy
wagner.6@osu.edu (judy) wrote in message news:<78ed4cff.0307141017.71202211@posting.google.com>...
> afw@adv-digital.com (amy) wrote in message news:...
> > I will keep asking questions about Clayton College until I am
> > satisfied with the answers I'm looking for.
> >
> > Thank you,
> > Amy
>
> Amy--
>
> I am a long time lurker who rarely posts. However, I could not pass
> this up. Your last sentence says it all. Until someone tells you that
> Clayton is a good school and you should go there, you won't be
> satisfied. You have asked for and been given advice from
> internationally known experts in the field and you don't like it. So
> keep on asking. Maybe someone day, someone who is not as
> passionate--or as knowledgeable--about the legitamacy of distance
> education will give you the answer you want.
>
> In the meantime, check out some of the accredited schools....
>
> Judy
Re: Clayton College of Natural Health -- Posted by Than on 08-09-03 13:23
> Judy -
>
> Thank you for your response but if you have read all of my posts you
> will notice that many of my questions were not answered. I found a
> gentleman on another board who was able to answer all of my questions
> and concerns without thinking I was attacking his intelligence or
> resume.
>
> Thank you,
> Amy
>
Dear Amy,
I was happy to hear that you have received the answers you were
looking for concerning the Clayton College. As a naturopathic
physician who graduated from Bastyr University, it saddens me deeply
that there is such a division within the naturopathic field.
Historically, it was just such internecine conflicts between various
branches of natural health that contributed to the demise of
naturopathy in the 1930s.
I empathize with those on the board who are less than complementary
about the Clayton College. In my own training, there was a great deal
of hostility to distance learning programs such as these. Having spent
more time investigating such programs, I still have reservations but I
feel that a resolution between advocates of both types of naturopathic
programs would be possible if there was more clarity about the
terminology used and more tolerance for differing philosophies.
Before I entered Bastyr, I spent 12 years in psychiatric medicine.
Critics of naturopathic physicians like myself who charge that we are
"MD-wannabees" should spend time doing hospitals rotations. While
there are many good and able MDs, there are also a significant number
who are extremely poorly trained, chemically dependent, overburdened
or dangerous. It was my experiences in the conventional medical field
that led me to seek an alternative. I have no desire to be an MD, only
a practitioner that can both offer a wide variety of options to my
patients and act as their advocate within a medical system that is
complex and difficult to navigate.
And yet, I was also clear that I did not want to be a naturopathic
consultant or counselor -- what the ANMA calls "traditional
naturopaths". Personally, I found that option too limiting. In answer
to charges that I therefore abandoned naturopathy as it was originally
intended, I will say this. In my readings of the founders of
naturopathy, it is clear to me that these individuals were encouraging
of innovation and evolution within the field. I see "untraditional
naturopathic medicine" (for lack of a better name) moving along such
an evolutionary path. Unfortunately, human needs for security,
prestige, and power have turned what could be seen as different
evolutionary pathways into a turf war over the "true" form of
naturopathy. *sigh*
As I said, I do have concerns about distance learning programs such as
Clayton. A major one is that any field of endeavor that concerns
counseling and health care requires a great deal of actual patient
contact time. Based on my investigation, the videos, books, online or
telephone consultations, email contact, audio tapes, etc. offered in
distance learning schools do not meet this requirement. Even if the
graduates of such schools do nothing more than counsel people in the
ways of creating a healthy lifestyle, the field of counseling itself
is incredibly complex. Not having supervised, intensive, long-term
client or patient contact in order to process and work through all of
the subtleties of the counseling relationship (eg transference,
counter-transference, dual relationships, etc.) potentially puts the
practitioner and the client in a compromising interaction. To put it
in another light, if you were in a marriage that was in crisis and had
a choice of marriage counselors, would you choose one who had done
their coursework in their living room or in a clinical setting? Most
people would choose the latter.
Another concern is the kinds of standards and instruction such
programs offer in terms of interacting with the rest of the health
care delivery system. Many of the sites I have visited advocating
"traditional naturopathy" seem to feel that they are relieved of this
responsibility because they do not "diagnosis and treat disease". They
are not. To give one example, in addition to a doctorate in
naturopathic medicine, I also have a masters in acupuncture. When I
went through my acupuncture program, I was aghast at the poor job that
was done in educating acupuncturists when a referral is required. In
one situation, I had to demand that my patient be sent to a urologist
for what I assessed to be a raging kidney infection, something my
instructor wanted to treat with moxa and herbs. Anytime one interacts
in a health care capacity with a patient or client, there is the
responsibility to be able to recognize and refer appropriately,
whether it is child abuse, cancer, or suicidal ideation, to give some
examples.
In the end, I agree with John Bear that your choice should, foremost,
center around your vision of who you are as an individual and what
form of naturopathy would be best suited to you. As I said earlier, it
would be optimal if there could be less provocative terms that define
"traditional naturopaths" from "naturopathic physicians." I personally
do not have an issue with competently trained people who want to
utilize naturopathic principles in helping others create a better life
for themselves. Hopefully, a way will be found to unite the divergent
philosophies of naturopathy into a synergistic whole.
Take care,
Than
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